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#1 Thursday 20th June 2013 21:55:59

MAZ
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From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: Tuesday 13th June 2006
Posts: 838

"Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

The peryls of driving with a "bit of a cold".

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rh … ne-1969253

Maz.

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Thursday 20th June 2013 21:55:59

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Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.



#2 Friday 21st June 2013 05:43:31

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: Monday 13th December 2004
Posts: 4,739

Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

I may be over cynical but it sounds to me as if someone is trying to duck his responsibility.  Oh I ran these people down because I coughed!  Sounds suspect to me!


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#3 Friday 21st June 2013 08:15:27

Lady-Hynarc
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Registered: Monday 9th April 2012
Posts: 650

Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

A few months ago I came home to find the road in which I live (sounds better than MY road!) blocked by a 4x4 - something like an X5? - on its roof.  Now the road is a relatively quiet, narrow, residential road with cars parked both sides, some on the pavement, and the 4x4 had been coming uphill.  I don't know what happened but I cannot conceive of a way to put a car on its roof in this road without some stunt mechanism.  How does it happen?  Is it really that easy to do?  Is there nowadays an inherent instability in vehicles?

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#4 Friday 21st June 2013 11:52:18

trunkmonkey
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Registered: Thursday 5th March 2009
Posts: 754

Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

'Automatism' is a defence to Careless Driving.

If it is claimed by a driver it is up to the prosecution to disprove it or show that the coughing fit was not connected to the driver hitting the wrong pedal.

If witnesses can show his approach from some distance away was fast then there may have a case. No independent witnesses makes  it difficult if he sticks to his story.

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#5 Friday 21st June 2013 12:32:56

Lady-Hynarc
Verified Member
Registered: Monday 9th April 2012
Posts: 650

Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

trunkmonkey wrote:

'Automatism' is a defence to Careless Driving.

If it is claimed by a driver it is up to the prosecution to disprove it or show that the coughing fit was not connected to the driver hitting the wrong pedal.

If witnesses can show his approach from some distance away was fast then there may have a case. No independent witnesses makes  it difficult if he sticks to his story.

Is a coughing fit an example of automatism?  From my police training (when Sir John Peel was involved) the only example given was if a wasp or bee flew into the car.  The effort to not be stung is considered automatism. 

However, it does sound from the latest reports that he coughed and passed out.  This is, I believe, medically quite feasible (Michael Lynah had something similar, and serious).  If there is any sense in which he had warning and could have done something about it then he is at fault.  I'm not sure that is the case...

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#6 Friday 21st June 2013 13:15:15

trunkmonkey
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Registered: Thursday 5th March 2009
Posts: 754

Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

Lady-Hynarc wrote:
trunkmonkey wrote:

'Automatism' is a defence to Careless Driving.

If it is claimed by a driver it is up to the prosecution to disprove it or show that the coughing fit was not connected to the driver hitting the wrong pedal.

If witnesses can show his approach from some distance away was fast then there may have a case. No independent witnesses makes  it difficult if he sticks to his story.

Is a coughing fit an example of automatism?  From my police training (when Sir John Peel was involved) the only example given was if a wasp or bee flew into the car.  The effort to not be stung is considered automatism. 

However, it does sound from the latest reports that he coughed and passed out.  This is, I believe, medically quite feasible (Michael Lynah had something similar, and serious).  If there is any sense in which he had warning and could have done something about it then he is at fault.  I'm not sure that is the case...

Automatism is anything which leads to an involuntary action by the driver, mentally or physically.
Sneezing - but only the first sneeze, causes a driver to shut his eyes even momentarily.
Heart attack,stroke, severe cramp and numerous others.

The driver must be completely unaware it was going to happen.

A diabetes sufferer who goes into a coma due to his condition cannot claim the defence because he had a condition he knew could lead to a blackout.

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#7 Friday 21st June 2013 15:57:58

Lady-Hynarc
Verified Member
Registered: Monday 9th April 2012
Posts: 650

Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

trunkmonkey wrote:
Lady-Hynarc wrote:
trunkmonkey wrote:

'Automatism' is a defence to Careless Driving.

If it is claimed by a driver it is up to the prosecution to disprove it or show that the coughing fit was not connected to the driver hitting the wrong pedal.

If witnesses can show his approach from some distance away was fast then there may have a case. No independent witnesses makes  it difficult if he sticks to his story.

Is a coughing fit an example of automatism?  From my police training (when Sir John Peel was involved) the only example given was if a wasp or bee flew into the car.  The effort to not be stung is considered automatism. 

However, it does sound from the latest reports that he coughed and passed out.  This is, I believe, medically quite feasible (Michael Lynah had something similar, and serious).  If there is any sense in which he had warning and could have done something about it then he is at fault.  I'm not sure that is the case...

Automatism is anything which leads to an involuntary action by the driver, mentally or physically.
Sneezing - but only the first sneeze, causes a driver to shut his eyes even momentarily.
Heart attack,stroke, severe cramp and numerous others.

The driver must be completely unaware it was going to happen.

A diabetes sufferer who goes into a coma due to his condition cannot claim the defence because he had a condition he knew could lead to a blackout.

I knew the bit about diabetes sufferers smile

Uncontrollable laughter?

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#8 Friday 21st June 2013 20:50:55

christhedrummer
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Registered: Wednesday 18th October 2006
Posts: 1,163
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Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

Apparently he was stationery when it happened...

And as for how easy it is to turn over a car - search you tube!

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#9 Friday 21st June 2013 21:45:01

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: Monday 13th December 2004
Posts: 4,739

Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

christhedrummer wrote:

Apparently he was stationery when it happened

Seriously?  So it was the kids that ran into his car rather than him ploughing into them?  <goes and double checks that it isn't the 1st of April> ;-)


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#10 Friday 21st June 2013 22:15:04

Evan
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Registered: Sunday 27th December 2009
Posts: 2,059

Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

Turns out the lollipop lady tried to shield the children and took the main impact. Thoughts are with that lady for her courage, she is recovering from surgery for multiple injuries.

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#11 Friday 21st June 2013 22:23:42

martin Williams
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Registered: Friday 26th June 2009
Posts: 1,144

Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

Evan wrote:

Turns out the lollipop lady tried to shield the children and took the main impact. Thoughts are with that lady for her courage, she is recovering from surgery for multiple injuries.

Don't you mean the school crossing patrol officer? smile

I agree she deserves some sort of recognition for her actions

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#12 Saturday 22nd June 2013 05:29:41

MGM
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From: Surrey
Registered: Monday 24th October 2011
Posts: 861

Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

christhedrummer wrote:

Apparently he was stationery when it happened...

That explains it - those envelopes are notoriously bad drivers.

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#13 Saturday 22nd June 2013 08:34:26

Zipper
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From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: Friday 20th August 2004
Posts: 2,711
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Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

We've had a few crashes down here where cars collided with trees, poles or fences - in many cases (according to driver reports) the vehicles were stationary when the crash happened  roll

Last edited by Zipper (Sunday 23rd June 2013 21:06:57)


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
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#14 Sunday 23rd June 2013 22:54:22

graham121150
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From: Long Eaton
Registered: Monday 29th August 2011
Posts: 648
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Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

I do wonder if the road engineering had anything to do with it, it is still difficult to see what launched the car, can see no other damage to anything else
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu2RXN6Knlo

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#15 Monday 24th June 2013 07:24:48

christhedrummer
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Registered: Wednesday 18th October 2006
Posts: 1,163
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Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

Triker wrote:

I've searched Youtube but I cant find an example of a car turning over at 20mph on a straight road. Maybe you can find one Chris?

You misunderstood.

According to the last few reports I heard, he was sat in his car and not moving. He coughed, pressed the gas and ended up on his roof, like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGdoH6-Y … 28B0CA0661

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#16 Wednesday 26th June 2013 20:54:53

dog
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Registered: Sunday 29th October 2006
Posts: 813

Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

With such safety systems as ESP being in most cars now it is virtually impossible to overturn a car without physical intervention (eg you hit something) or you have a very high centre of gravity.

Regardless I have seen a Ford Fusion on its roof on a dead straight road before with no visible damage to anything else nearby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTtB9eWnXD0

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#17 Wednesday 26th June 2013 21:20:36

Zipper
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From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: Friday 20th August 2004
Posts: 2,711
Website

Re: "Coughing" driver ploughs into school patrol.

dog wrote:

... Regardless I have seen a Ford Fusion on its roof on a dead straight road before with no visible damage to anything else nearby. ...

"Single vehicle roll-overs" are a common type of crash on our remote highways.
They often happen on straight stretches and without striking any object - they are caused by a fatigued or distracted driver running off the edge of the road at high speed then over correcting and steering across the road to the opposite edge.
By the time the shocked driver slams the brakes on, they are on an unpaved surface and lose total control.

This situation doesn't apply to the school patrol incident, but would it have applied to the Ford Fusion, dog?


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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