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#76 Tuesday 14th August 2012 18:23:34

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: Thursday 11th January 2007
Posts: 320

Re: Local Rospa says No!!

(ROG) wrote:

What is the legal definition of the word 'paid' ?

"receiving money or money's worth"?


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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Tuesday 14th August 2012 18:23:34

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Re: Local Rospa says No!!



#77 Tuesday 14th August 2012 18:49:44

Driver99
Member
Registered: Friday 21st January 2011
Posts: 264

Re: Local Rospa says No!!

Wessex wrote:

Playing Devil's Advocate; is it not the RoSPA or IAM Board that is guilty of obtaining payment for offering driving instruction on advanced methods?

But they don't do the actual on road training.  It's poor (unpaid) bar stewards like me down at the coal face  sad

If it was that easy to "get" them, it would have been done by now?

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#78 Tuesday 14th August 2012 19:36:40

ratty
Member
Registered: Saturday 5th February 2011
Posts: 471

Re: Local Rospa says No!!

Driver99 wrote:
Wessex wrote:

Playing Devil's Advocate; is it not the RoSPA or IAM Board that is guilty of obtaining payment for offering driving instruction on advanced methods?



1    But they don't do the actual on road training.  It's poor (unpaid) bar stewards like me down at the coal face  sad

2    If it was that easy to "get" them, it would have been done by now?


Re 1 above, if you don't like being a 'poor (unpaid) bar steward' why do you do it?

2  For many years the DSA and the law in general have made it clear that they are not interested in prosecuting IAM and RoSPA observers. Unless something big changes I can't see it ever happening.

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#79 Tuesday 14th August 2012 19:39:27

ratty
Member
Registered: Saturday 5th February 2011
Posts: 471

Re: Local Rospa says No!!

MGM wrote:

"No paid instruction in the driving of a motor car shall be given unless?
(a)the name of the person giving the instruction is in the register of approved instructors established in pursuance of section 23 of the M1Road Traffic Act 1962 (in this Part of this Act referred to as the register), or
(b)the person giving the instruction is the holder of a current licence granted under this Part of this Act authorising him to give such instruction."

If there's a grey area there, I've missed it. To give paid instruction in driving a car you have to be an ADI.

Also, the legislation wasn't introduced "to cut down on unlawful Driving Instruction". There was no such thing as unlawful instruction before this legislation was introduced!

I agree with this.

People are using the term 'advanced' but in reality it is post licence acquisition training, not 'advanced'.

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#80 Tuesday 14th August 2012 20:24:20

Driver99
Member
Registered: Friday 21st January 2011
Posts: 264

Re: Local Rospa says No!!

ratty wrote:
Driver99 wrote:
Wessex wrote:

Playing Devil's Advocate; is it not the RoSPA or IAM Board that is guilty of obtaining payment for offering driving instruction on advanced methods?

1    But they don't do the actual on road training.  It's poor (unpaid) bar stewards like me down at the coal face  sad

2    If it was that easy to "get" them, it would have been done by now?

Re 1 above, if you don't like being a 'poor (unpaid) bar steward' why do you do it?

I can't get the level of humour or emoticons right on here!  I thought I'd put a different one in there.

I do it because it's mostly fun and in a strange way I like to think I'm helping with road safety and getting people to try and enjoy driving.  Having to explain things to different people and deal with questions keeps my interest up in the theory side, and having to do demo drives makes me keep my driving reasonable.
Because there's no concept of paying by the hour and working towards a test as important as the L test (because they can already drive), the sessions are relaxed and time can be spent working on what the Associate wants/needs, rather than just putting a set syllabus into them.
So actually I enjoy it!  smile

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#81 Tuesday 14th August 2012 21:45:39

ratty
Member
Registered: Saturday 5th February 2011
Posts: 471

Re: Local Rospa says No!!

Best reason there is.

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#82 Tuesday 14th August 2012 21:55:14

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: Thursday 11th January 2007
Posts: 320

Re: Local Rospa says No!!

Driver99 wrote:
ratty wrote:
Driver99 wrote:

1    But they don't do the actual on road training.  It's poor (unpaid) bar stewards like me down at the coal face  sad

2    If it was that easy to "get" them, it would have been done by now?

Re 1 above, if you don't like being a 'poor (unpaid) bar steward' why do you do it?

I can't get the level of humour or emoticons right on here!  I thought I'd put a different one in there.

I do it because it's mostly fun and in a strange way I like to think I'm helping with road safety and getting people to try and enjoy driving.  Having to explain things to different people and deal with questions keeps my interest up in the theory side, and having to do demo drives makes me keep my driving reasonable.
Because there's no concept of paying by the hour and working towards a test as important as the L test (because they can already drive), the sessions are relaxed and time can be spent working on what the Associate wants/needs, rather than just putting a set syllabus into them.
So actually I enjoy it!  smile

I absolutely understand your interest in and passion for developing driver skill and knowledge, so good on you!


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#83 Thursday 16th August 2012 07:49:47

graham121150
Verified Member
From: Long Eaton
Registered: Monday 29th August 2011
Posts: 648
Website

Re: Local Rospa says No!!

If you are not an ADI then your car will not be insured for instructing/coaching.
As for underpowered well we always want more power. Mine have 114bhp and the other 163bhp . Which is enough, the problem with using school car with all the signs on, is other drivers like to take you on, it gets very boring.
As soon as you are at the speed limit you will get overtaken often very dangerously.
I teach/coach all the pupils in AD, half will not understand but many really do start to understand. And many are surprised when we watch the video back on how much they did not see. But the same can be said of FLH

The police on here seem to think the only those that have legally driven well over the speed limits can teach ad.
Well a lot of the NSL/GLF roads have now had the limits greatly reduced. The very roads I used for teaching overtaking are now 40mph and now we are the one being overtaken offer by police and council vehicles.

AD is about keeping safe end of.


Graham

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#84 Thursday 16th August 2012 08:27:23

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: Friday 26th June 2009
Posts: 1,144

Re: Local Rospa says No!!

graham121150 wrote:

If you are not an ADI then your car will not be insured for instructing/coaching.

Graham

If the client/friend has fully comprehensive insurance on their own car then they will be covered to drive your car with third party cover. Also if your car is ensured for any driver they will also be covered. The fact that you may be instructing/coaching sat next to them makes no difference as long as the driver is covered by the insurance.

Happy to be corrected if i'm wrong?

Last edited by martin Williams (Thursday 16th August 2012 12:23:54)

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#85 Thursday 16th August 2012 11:30:36

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: Monday 5th April 2004
Posts: 1,963

Re: Local Rospa says No!!

Wessex wrote:

Another Devil's question; does the Observer get a reduction in his membership fee or is it free?


Truthful answer NO the Observer does NOT get any reduction in membership fee's, we have to pay the same as any other member. NO it is NOT free.

Giz

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#86 Thursday 16th August 2012 12:21:37

Driver99
Member
Registered: Friday 21st January 2011
Posts: 264

Re: Local Rospa says No!!

Wessex wrote:

Another Devil's question; does the Observer get a reduction in his membership fee or is it free?

Please answer truthfully.  ie, what does the Observer get out of teaching/coaching/instructing apart from the enjoyment that is obviously felt?

No and no.
Free?! - the IAM?!
In fact, if I do a demo drive it costs me money!

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#87 Thursday 16th August 2012 14:10:49

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: Monday 23rd August 2010
Posts: 1,551

Re: Local Rospa says No!!

Wessex wrote:

Another Devil's question; does the Observer get a reduction in his membership fee or is it free?

Please answer truthfully.  ie, what does the Observer get out of teaching/coaching/instructing apart from the enjoyment that is obviously felt?

No freebies or reductions - just the pleasure of doing it


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#88 Thursday 16th August 2012 15:24:03

Promanade
Guest

Re: Local Rospa says No!!

Despite what many may think!! there are still some people who do give up their time free of charge if they enjoy what they do. (i will often do the odd presentation at a local ADI association meeting for FREE)

I would agree with Giz, Driver99 and Rog and believe they do have a passion for it.

#89 Thursday 16th August 2012 21:59:02

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: Friday 25th February 2005
Posts: 3,317

Re: Local Rospa says No!!

Hi Prom

Promanade wrote:

Despite what many may think!! there are still some people who do give up their time free of charge if they enjoy what they do. (i will often do the odd presentation at a local ADI association meeting for FREE)

I would agree with Giz, Driver99 and Rog and believe they do have a passion for it.

Why do "odd" presentations why not do "normal ones? big_smile

But seriously all the officers and committee members of both local and regional sections of national associations give of their time very generously.

Those who serve on national organisations' central boards/committees do generally get expenses but only employees get wages or salaries.

Personally I would estimate I do about 2 to 3 days per month.

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