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#1 Monday 5th December 2011 17:10:29

pinball
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From: lancashire
Registered: Saturday 18th November 2006
Posts: 1,149
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fleet question

Hi guys hope somebody will be able to answer this one?

You are carrying out vehicle checks and you notice a screw in the tyre so you then refuse to take vehicle out on deliveries due to tyre not being safe,  so then your manager asked you to take it to tyre company to have tyre fixed. the question is if the vehicle was unsafe to take on deliveries surely its still unsafe to take to tyre company to be repaired.  you have not got a spare/wheel to swap over so should the manager get the tyre company to come to you?? and if you take vehicle out and have blow out or accident whats the consequences. ie legal side/law

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Monday 5th December 2011 17:10:29

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Re: fleet question



#2 Monday 5th December 2011 17:28:50

Roadmaster
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Registered: Thursday 4th March 2004
Posts: 5,680

Re: fleet question

Happened to me a few days ago.  I left the screw in and drove to the garage.  Didn't go over 30mph so a blow out extremely remote, , most probably the  tyre would  deflate slowly.

However, your question relates to health & safety and employment, which is a totally different situation.  If I was the manager I would get a mobile tyre repair to come out.  And then I'd get a spare for the vehicle.

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#3 Monday 5th December 2011 19:13:51

(ROG)
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From: LEICESTER
Registered: Monday 23rd August 2010
Posts: 1,551

Re: fleet question

Car with screw in tyre but fully inflated - a very short distance with great care OK

Anything bigger than a car - no way!!


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#4 Tuesday 6th December 2011 10:47:59

pinball
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From: lancashire
Registered: Saturday 18th November 2006
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Re: fleet question

Anybody got answer to legal side ie how the driver stands legally if taken out and signed off vehicle check sheet knowing screw in tyre but still taking vehicle to tyre company. Surely this would be illegal

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#5 Tuesday 6th December 2011 17:24:35

trunkmonkey
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Registered: Thursday 5th March 2009
Posts: 754

Re: fleet question

I would suggest not. There are a number of ways a tyre may be defective. Having a screw in it is not one of them.

The screw may lead the tyre to become under inflated - then it may be defective (10% is the benchmark)
The screw may cause damage to the tyre over time, then it becomes unsuitable owing to condition and that may render it defective.
There is also a little known offence of using a motor vehicle in a dangerous condition. The prosecution have to prove "dangerous".

All are maybes, ifs and buts.

If the condition is as you describe, I would say not illegal and drive it to the garage.

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#6 Tuesday 6th December 2011 21:49:22

pinball
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From: lancashire
Registered: Saturday 18th November 2006
Posts: 1,149
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Re: fleet question

I have spoken to traffic officer this evening , his reply was as long as the tyre is inflated and your driving just a couple of miles to have tyre replaced/fixed  and you have filled it in on vehicle check sheet and your manager as asked for vehicle to be taken and repaired then its fine.

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#7 Wednesday 7th December 2011 08:45:24

trunkmonkey
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Registered: Thursday 5th March 2009
Posts: 754

Re: fleet question

Bit like what we said.

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#8 Tuesday 13th December 2011 17:45:31

ratty
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Registered: Saturday 5th February 2011
Posts: 472

Re: fleet question

Until you take the screw out, how do you know it has gone right through the tyre's carcass?

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#9 Saturday 24th December 2011 23:32:18

clwydian1
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From: Northampton
Registered: Thursday 16th June 2011
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Re: fleet question

If the driver has identified a fault with the tyre then they shouldn't drive the vehicle until it has been rectified.
They will be held accountable should something go wrong.
The company would also be liable if the driver had identified a fault to them and they allowed the vehicle to go on the road.

Screw in the tyre? As mentioned already in this thread, there is no way of knowing what damage has been caused to the structure or condition of the tyre (unless it's flat!) without removing the tyre from the rim.


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#10 Wednesday 28th December 2011 09:28:03

ratty
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Registered: Saturday 5th February 2011
Posts: 472

Re: fleet question

Well I have to say that if I find something stuck in a tyre I take it out. If the tyre looses pressure I get it repaired, if it doesn't, I don't worry about it. I certainly don't pay someone to take it off the rim, look inside and tell me what I already know, ie the screw / nail did not go all of the way through so the tyre is OK. I would also suggest that no company, OR ADI THAT I KNOW, of would do this either.

Just because something is stuck in the rubber part of the tyre does does not automatically mean that the tyre is defective or dangerous. I agree that if something has penetrated all of the way through the different layers of the tyre there might be a problem, but until you remove the screw / nail from the tyre how do you know?

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#11 Wednesday 28th December 2011 12:01:13

martin Williams
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Registered: Friday 26th June 2009
Posts: 1,144

Re: fleet question

but until you remove the screw / nail from the tyre how do you know?

If a nail or screw has penertrated to the inside it results in a slow puncture. A bit of soap and water will confirm its the nail/screw which is the problem as it will bubble up when applied over the nail/screw.

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#12 Wednesday 28th December 2011 12:32:28

clwydian1
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From: Northampton
Registered: Thursday 16th June 2011
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Re: fleet question

The flat bit at the bottom of the tyre is a good indication too  big_smile


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#13 Wednesday 28th December 2011 15:13:43

ratty
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Registered: Saturday 5th February 2011
Posts: 472

Re: fleet question

The flat bit at the bottom of the tyre is a good indication too  big_smile

So why say the tyre should be taken off and checked then?

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#14 Wednesday 28th December 2011 21:52:09

clwydian1
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From: Northampton
Registered: Thursday 16th June 2011
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Re: fleet question

[quote author=clwydian1 link=topic=42544.msg318252#msg318252 date=1325075548]
The flat bit at the bottom of the tyre is a good indication too  big_smile

So why say the tyre should be taken off and checked then?

If I'm advising a company how they might prevent damage, save them money and reduce downtime, I'd advise them to sort the tyre before it goes out on the road.

If a vehicle goes out with a nail embedded in it, and the tyre deflates......
Worst Case Scenario: Rapid deflation, Blow out, massive R.T.C. Potential fatalities

Best Case Scenario: Vehicle stuck at the side of the road not earning any money, driver being paid to just sit there, deliveries/service etc not being carried out while a breakdown company come out to do a roadside repair/replacement and the costs that go with it.

In the worst case scenario, the company could be liable as well as the driver for allowing the vehicle on the road with a defect.
If someone is killed, The Director could go to prison under The Corporate Manslaughter Act (worst case scenario).

When you cover vehicle checks on a driver assessment, would you tell the driver it's probably ok if there's a nail in the tyre???


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#15 Wednesday 28th December 2011 22:34:32

ratty
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Registered: Saturday 5th February 2011
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Re: fleet question

No, I would tell them to be sensible and take the nail out and see what happens.

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#16 Thursday 29th December 2011 03:26:32

clwydian1
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From: Northampton
Registered: Thursday 16th June 2011
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Re: fleet question

Lets hope you have professional indemnity insurance then  tongue


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#17 Thursday 29th December 2011 10:04:26

trunkmonkey
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Registered: Thursday 5th March 2009
Posts: 754

Re: fleet question

Whilst possible, it is unlikely a nail will be discovered by a visual check alone on a morning, or after returning to a vehicle in a motorway services.
That's made more difficult with run-flat tyres. Visually it's almost impossible to tell if a tyre is under inflated.

I'd expect most nail incidents to be discovered either by the tyre being flat on walk around checks or when carrying out weekly checks on tyre pressures.

A loss in tyre pressure requires closer examination. It there's a problem,find it and get it repaired. I would have no problem re-inflating a tyre, putting in an extra pound or two and driving a short distance to a repairer. I've been doing it for almost 40 yrs. For most tyre fitters it will be their second biggest workload after tyre replacement.

I wouldn't embark on a days work with a tyre in that condition.

NB. There is no jail sentence under the Corporate Manslaughter Act.  If there is a case against an individual they would be charged with Involuntary Manslaughter.



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#18 Thursday 29th December 2011 15:26:14

ratty
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Registered: Saturday 5th February 2011
Posts: 472

Re: fleet question

Lets hope you have professional indemnity insurance then  tongue

For what purpose? Incase the delegate is injured when they take the nail out prior to the drive?

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#19 Monday 2nd January 2012 00:26:25

clwydian1
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From: Northampton
Registered: Thursday 16th June 2011
Posts: 68
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Re: fleet question

[quote author=clwydian1 link=topic=42544.msg318281#msg318281 date=1325129192]
Lets hope you have professional indemnity insurance then  tongue

For what purpose? Incase the delegate is injured when they take the nail out prior to the drive?

Hmmm we now appear to be going around in circles!

I refer you to my previous post regarding the risks (but I suspect you already know that) smile


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#20 Thursday 26th July 2012 17:28:59

ratty
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Registered: Saturday 5th February 2011
Posts: 472

Re: fleet question

Guess what, I found a nail in a tyre yesterday and, shock horror, I pulled it out.

Guess what, I found that the nail had not penetrated the tyre but was only actually in the rubber tread. No air loss, no problems, no need for 'professional indemnity insurance' and no need for a new tyre.

Happy days.

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#21 Thursday 26th July 2012 20:55:54

finch
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Registered: Thursday 17th September 2009
Posts: 168

Re: fleet question

More words of wisdom from ANY DRIVER,

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#22 Saturday 28th July 2012 21:41:10

ratty
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Registered: Saturday 5th February 2011
Posts: 472

Re: fleet question

Who is 'ANY DRIVER'?

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#23 Sunday 29th July 2012 18:01:14

ratty
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Registered: Saturday 5th February 2011
Posts: 472

Re: fleet question

So who is ANY DRIVER on here?

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