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#1 Tuesday 12th November 2013 13:41:48

KKarolina
Member
Registered: Tuesday 12th November 2013
Posts: 5

Overtaking using a bus lane

I failed my last test because I did not overtake a bus that was at the bus stop. I have my next test this week and there is one tricky road which has a normal lane and a bus lane on the other side, so essentially it is a one way road for car drivers, and a 2-way road for busses. The lane in which cars can drive has a bus stop.. now if there is a bus stopped, the only way for me to overtake it would be to use the bus lane on my right... but you are technically not allowed to drive in the bus lane.. yet I failed for not overtaking a bus in the previous test... So what should I do if I come across something like this in the test??

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Tuesday 12th November 2013 13:41:48

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Re: Overtaking using a bus lane



#2 Tuesday 12th November 2013 16:24:36

Roadmaster
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Registered: Thursday 4th March 2004
Posts: 5,670

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

From what you are describing it sounds like a one way road with a contraflow bus lane, like this   http://goo.gl/maps/1lYHv

If it is then you should not enter the bus lane on the right at any time.   In my picture the left lane is wide enough to overtake without going into the bus lane so you should overtake.    But if you had to enter the bus lane to overtake you should wait behind the bus.   

You say you failed for not overtaking a bus previously, but was this different circumstances,  or was it in the same road?

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#3 Tuesday 12th November 2013 16:37:54

KKarolina
Member
Registered: Tuesday 12th November 2013
Posts: 5

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

Fair enough.
It was a slightly different circumstance - the bus stop was at the top on the hill and on a bent in the road so I couldn't see far enough to overtake it and so failed the test.

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#4 Tuesday 12th November 2013 16:51:56

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: Friday 26th June 2009
Posts: 1,144

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

KKarolina wrote:

Fair enough.
It was a slightly different circumstance - the bus stop was at the top on the hill and on a bent in the road so I couldn't see far enough to overtake it and so failed the test.

So what would you have done if the bus had broken down?  Would you have just waited behind it for the breakdown truck to arrive 2 or 3 hours later?

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#5 Tuesday 12th November 2013 17:46:28

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: Monday 23rd August 2010
Posts: 1,551

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

Not sure how DSA examiners view this sort of issue but advanced driving examiners would see the bus as a road blockage and if not expected to move within the next few seconds then the driver can pass it using any piece of road space if done safely


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#6 Tuesday 12th November 2013 18:19:13

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: Thursday 4th March 2004
Posts: 5,670

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

(ROG) wrote:

Not sure how DSA examiners view this sort of issue but advanced driving examiners would see the bus as a road blockage and if not expected to move within the next few seconds then the driver can pass it using any piece of road space if done safely

So you would illegally drive into a contraflow bus lane rather than be patient?

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#7 Tuesday 12th November 2013 18:31:51

kaf
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From: Wiltshire
Registered: Sunday 5th August 2007
Posts: 3,330
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Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

kKarolina, what does your instructor say?

Bus lanes and procedures vary by area, what might be expected in one area, might be different somewhere else, there is no national standard for bus lanes.

Ask your instructor to verify the view of local examiners on such a situation.

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#8 Tuesday 12th November 2013 19:27:24

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: Thursday 5th March 2009
Posts: 754

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

kKarolina,
Are you able to give us the street and town it occurred on?

We'll then have a better idea of how to deal with it.

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#9 Tuesday 12th November 2013 19:54:58

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: Monday 23rd August 2010
Posts: 1,551

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

Roadmaster wrote:
(ROG) wrote:

Not sure how DSA examiners view this sort of issue but advanced driving examiners would see the bus as a road blockage and if not expected to move within the next few seconds then the driver can pass it using any piece of road space if done safely

So you would illegally drive into a contraflow bus lane rather than be patient?

For how long?

Why wait when its safe to pass?

Its also legal to cross a solid line when blocked by a stopped vehicle


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#10 Tuesday 12th November 2013 20:12:40

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: Thursday 4th March 2004
Posts: 5,670

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

For how long?
You mentioned within a few seconds
Why is it such an obsession with IAM that saving a few seconds is vital?

Why wait when its safe to pass?
because you would be entering a bus lane which, depending on where you are, could result in a fine

Its also legal to cross a solid line when blocked by a stopped vehicle
Entering a bus lane is different  from just crossing a solid line

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#11 Tuesday 12th November 2013 20:19:12

Lewinpeter1
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From: Morpeth,Northumberland
Registered: Saturday 17th January 2009
Posts: 803
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Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

Hi
In my area I would advise my pupil to use their commonsense.
If it is safe to pass(not overtake)why wouldnt you?
When driving in todays environment you must be able to make decisions that are practical in the circumstances and not just following so called rules.
Peter


Dont press that,oh @@##!

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#12 Tuesday 12th November 2013 20:39:10

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: Thursday 4th March 2004
Posts: 5,670

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

A contraflow bus lane is effectively a one way lane.  At it's beginning there is a no entry sign and road markings/signs show the direction of travel.
By entering it to overtake you would be travelling the wrong way down the lane.

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#13 Tuesday 12th November 2013 20:52:18

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: Monday 24th October 2011
Posts: 861

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

Lewinpeter1 wrote:

Hi
In my area I would advise my pupil to use their commonsense.
If it is safe to pass(not overtake)why wouldnt you?
When driving in todays environment you must be able to make decisions that are practical in the circumstances and not just following so called rules.
Peter

In many parts of the country, breaking this "so-called rule" would result in a so-called fine. Failure to pay would see you sent to the so-called jail sad .

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#14 Tuesday 12th November 2013 21:41:57

Lewinpeter1
Verified Member
From: Morpeth,Northumberland
Registered: Saturday 17th January 2009
Posts: 803
Website

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

Hi
In my area they would expect you to act as ROG has suggested.
This is a discussion which will get no resolution on here.
It will revert to the old argument which occurs between instructors: practicality v the rules say!
Peter


Dont press that,oh @@##!

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#15 Tuesday 12th November 2013 22:14:29

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: Friday 22nd July 2011
Posts: 1,032

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

Pointless trying to answer this question any further unless the exact spot is known.


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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#16 Wednesday 13th November 2013 09:03:03

KKarolina
Member
Registered: Tuesday 12th November 2013
Posts: 5

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

kaf wrote:

kKarolina, what does your instructor say?

Bus lanes and procedures vary by area, what might be expected in one area, might be different somewhere else, there is no national standard for bus lanes.

Ask your instructor to verify the view of local examiners on such a situation.


He doesn't really know either to be honest, which is why I came here for opinions.

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#17 Wednesday 13th November 2013 09:04:39

KKarolina
Member
Registered: Tuesday 12th November 2013
Posts: 5

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

trunkmonkey wrote:

kKarolina,
Are you able to give us the street and town it occurred on?

We'll then have a better idea of how to deal with it.

Unfortunately, I can't remember what road it was on as I've never driven on it before my exam. It was in Southampton.

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#18 Wednesday 13th November 2013 10:11:50

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: Thursday 4th March 2004
Posts: 5,670

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

As you have admitted, the situation you describe in your original post which may be on your next test is different from the one you failed on.  Your instructor should advise you on how to handle the first senario, but if it's as described I would be advising NOT to enter a contraflow bus lane just to overtake a bus at a bus stop.

You might consider telling the exminer why you make a decision, this will help them to decide whether you are making a correct assessment or just being hesitant, and could be the difference between pass or fail.

If you get the same test route at least you will know what to do this time, although the chances are the very same situation won't occur again.

Did you learn to drive in Southampton or have you just gone there for a test?

Last edited by Roadmaster (Wednesday 13th November 2013 10:16:31)

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#19 Wednesday 13th November 2013 11:28:38

KKarolina
Member
Registered: Tuesday 12th November 2013
Posts: 5

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

Roadmaster wrote:

As you have admitted, the situation you describe in your original post which may be on your next test is different from the one you failed on.  Your instructor should advise you on how to handle the first senario, but if it's as described I would be advising NOT to enter a contraflow bus lane just to overtake a bus at a bus stop.

You might consider telling the exminer why you make a decision, this will help them to decide whether you are making a correct assessment or just being hesitant, and could be the difference between pass or fail.

If you get the same test route at least you will know what to do this time, although the chances are the very same situation won't occur again.

Did you learn to drive in Southampton or have you just gone there for a test?


My driving instructor thinks it should be ok to pass the bus which is at the bus stop using a contraflow bus lane, if it is safe to do so. However he wasn't sure of what the examiner's opinion would be in this case.

I've learnt how to drive in Southampton.

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#20 Wednesday 13th November 2013 12:23:57

Lewinpeter1
Verified Member
From: Morpeth,Northumberland
Registered: Saturday 17th January 2009
Posts: 803
Website

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

Hi
Well he should ask the local test centre manager for advice.
Peter


Dont press that,oh @@##!

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#21 Wednesday 13th November 2013 12:36:26

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: Thursday 4th March 2004
Posts: 5,670

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

Lewinpeter1 wrote:

Hi
Well he should ask the local test centre manager for advice.
Peter

Yes, a very good idea to prevent his pupils failing!

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#22 Wednesday 13th November 2013 14:55:50

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: Monday 24th October 2011
Posts: 861

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

Lewinpeter1 wrote:

Hi
Well he should ask the local test centre manager for advice.
Peter

Excellent idea.

If the answer is that it's ok to use the bus lane, ask him why the DSA are not applying the same approach nationally.

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#23 Wednesday 13th November 2013 15:22:39

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: Monday 23rd August 2010
Posts: 1,551

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

MGM wrote:
Lewinpeter1 wrote:

Hi
Well he should ask the local test centre manager for advice.
Peter

Excellent idea.

If the answer is that it's ok to use the bus lane, ask him why the DSA are not applying the same approach nationally.

Probably cannot be the same nationally because councils and plod in different areas take different viewpoints on this issue

In London for example the council will prosecute anyone for going in a bus lane for virtually any reason if seen by their cameras

In Leicester a more realistic approach is taken such as using the 24 hour bus lane on the left if another is waiting to turn right and blocking the carriageway - as long as no bus etc is inconvenienced and the minimum time possible is spent doing it - the cops do this as well when not under B&Ts and do not bother with those following suit


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#24 Wednesday 13th November 2013 15:57:57

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: Monday 24th October 2011
Posts: 861

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

(ROG) wrote:
MGM wrote:
Lewinpeter1 wrote:

Hi
Well he should ask the local test centre manager for advice.
Peter

Excellent idea.

If the answer is that it's ok to use the bus lane, ask him why the DSA are not applying the same approach nationally.

Probably cannot be the same nationally because councils and plod in different areas take different viewpoints on this issue

In London for example the council will prosecute anyone for going in a bus lane for virtually any reason if seen by their cameras

In Leicester a more realistic approach is taken such as using the 24 hour bus lane on the left if another is waiting to turn right and blocking the carriageway - as long as no bus etc is inconvenienced and the minimum time possible is spent doing it - the cops do this as well when not under B&Ts and do not bother with those following suit

I appreciate that councils etc. apply different rules, but it seems entirely wrong that anyone taking a test should be expected to have local knowledge.

If say a London-based pupil went for his test in Leicester, and failed as a result of not using the bus lane (i.e. obeying the Highway Code!), I think he'd have a very legitimate grievance.

Perhaps the answer would be for the examiner simply to tell the candidate what to do, as they sometimes already do in other tricky situations (e.g. driving on the pavement).

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#25 Wednesday 13th November 2013 18:47:05

brod
Banned
Registered: Wednesday 20th March 2013
Posts: 694

Re: Overtaking using a bus lane

Lewinpeter1 wrote:

Hi
Well he should ask the local test centre manager for advice.
Peter

Agreed.

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