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#1 Thursday 25th July 2013 23:05:21

RobC
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From: Nr Ormskirk Lancs
Registered: Wednesday 28th January 2009
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IAM Offsiding the centre line

How soon would you move out for parked cars in the picture in the link. Assume that there are no cars approaching and that in a 'normal' driving position you can see down the pavement line past the blue parked car

Moving out for parked vehicles


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Thursday 25th July 2013 23:05:21

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Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line



#2 Friday 26th July 2013 05:17:50

reddragonbus
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Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

There is a risk of conflict with traffic from the junction on the right, so wait until you can assess that junction before moving out.


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#3 Friday 26th July 2013 06:40:38

kaf
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Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

As soon as I clear that offside junction as safe.

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#4 Friday 26th July 2013 13:44:52

RobC
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Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

I realise this is moving out for a parked car but does anyone know the IAMs stance on offsiding the centre line?


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#5 Friday 26th July 2013 15:51:54

martin Williams
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Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

The centre line is just warning of a hazard ahead so do it as if there is no line.

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#6 Friday 26th July 2013 19:12:10

kaf
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Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

I was assuming the question had been asked in relation to the parked vehicle and road rather than the traffic situation as a specific.

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#7 Friday 26th July 2013 19:21:27

MGM
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From: Surrey
Registered: Monday 24th October 2011
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Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

RobC wrote:

I realise this is moving out for a parked car but does anyone know the IAMs stance on offsiding the centre line?

Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but surely what matters is what a careful and competent driver would do. That is what the courts will decide on in the event of a problem.

The IAM's view is totally irrelevant.

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#8 Friday 26th July 2013 19:30:57

RobC
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From: Nr Ormskirk Lancs
Registered: Wednesday 28th January 2009
Posts: 765
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Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

MGM wrote:
RobC wrote:

I realise this is moving out for a parked car but does anyone know the IAMs stance on offsiding the centre line?

Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but surely what matters is what a careful and competent driver would do. That is what the courts will decide on in the event of a problem.

The IAM's view is totally irrelevant.


Hi MGM

I agree safety comes before progress however the IAMs view isn't irrelevant on a test.

I had to pass a parked car in this location on my IAM test this week and the examiner said I should have moved out 100 yards before the parked car.
My view was that this was dangerous as there was a junction to the right and it was better to look for traffic on the left hand bend in front of the parked car down the pavement line from a normal driving position.
I was marked down for hazards, anticipation, planning, position and observations


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#9 Friday 26th July 2013 20:03:00

Driver99
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Registered: Friday 21st January 2011
Posts: 264

Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

RobC wrote:

I was marked down for hazards, anticipation, planning, position and observations

All because of this one incident?
I would have delayed as everyone here has suggested.  Surprised if the examiner would have seen it differently.

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#10 Friday 26th July 2013 20:03:08

pegasus
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From: north west
Registered: Friday 25th February 2005
Posts: 3,323

Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

Hi
That particular parked vehicle is about 75-80ft beyond the junction on the right.
So in that situation, providing no cars are at that time visible descending the hill, I would move out once I had ascertained that nobody was going to emerge from the junction, IMO 100yds is far too far particularly as that is a 30 limit 100yds at 44fps = just under 7secs, but I would want to move out that ewarly to open up the view round the left bend beyond the parked car staying in too long shortens the view up the hill and cuts it off  altogether when you do eventually start to move out.
If you do move out earlyish you can always move back in if something comes into view descending the hill and it is apparently not prepared to give way to the ascending vehicle.

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#11 Friday 26th July 2013 20:10:07

kaf
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Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

Your observer is an idiot, getting across the centre line before the junction is madness , if a car emerges from the junction on the right, with the driver looking only to his right, as many do, you are in imminent danger. Your escape time is very restricted and will,necessitate a rapid steer left, which is not something you should put tourself in a position of having to do.

That junction, with its restricted view in is by far a bigger hazard, if you cross the line, than the parked car is if you stay left of it.

I would speak to the area senior observer and challenge the comments made.

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#12 Friday 26th July 2013 20:18:57

MGM
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From: Surrey
Registered: Monday 24th October 2011
Posts: 861

Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

That seems unanimous so far. The IAM guy is an a*se!

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#13 Friday 26th July 2013 20:28:44

RobC
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Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

I agree with everyones comments but this was an IAM examiner not an observer.

I was also told that I should have reversed into a parking space and not driven in forwards before I met him, and that reverse bay park at the end of the test should have been a simple one and not one which required skill ie 90 degrees to the bay like my pupils have to do on their learner test.


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#14 Friday 26th July 2013 20:49:03

Driver99
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Registered: Friday 21st January 2011
Posts: 264

Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

RobC wrote:

I agree with everyones comments but this was an IAM examiner not an observer.

I was also told that I should have reversed into a parking space and not driven in forwards before I met him, and that reverse bay park at the end of the test should have been a simple one and not one which required skill ie 90 degrees to the bay like my pupils have to do on their learner test.

Did you have any training prior to the test?
It's a bit like a PST, if you know what they are looking for, it helps.
If they see you do a reverse at the start of a test, they like that.  If it's done well they can spend more time on driving forwards, which is more interesting.
The idea for a bay park is to make life easy for yourself, why try a 90 degree if you don't have to? You don't have to do 90 on a DSA test.

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#15 Friday 26th July 2013 20:50:32

martin Williams
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Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

RobC wrote:

I agree with everyones comments but this was an IAM examiner not an observer.

I was also told that I should have reversed into a parking space and not driven in forwards before I met him, and that reverse bay park at the end of the test should have been a simple one and not one which required skill ie 90 degrees to the bay like my pupils have to do on their learner test.

I hate to pick but your pupils do not have to do the bay park at 90 degrees on their L test.

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#16 Friday 26th July 2013 21:04:45

daz6215
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Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

Safety, system, smoothness and speed, it should be carried out in that order i.e. safety should not be compromised for system (position) in this case. Use it and you wont go far wrong, and you might want to pass the four S's on to him, clearly he needs a structure in place to assess correctly!

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#17 Friday 26th July 2013 21:33:10

RobC
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From: Nr Ormskirk Lancs
Registered: Wednesday 28th January 2009
Posts: 765
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Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

martin Williams wrote:
RobC wrote:

I agree with everyones comments but this was an IAM examiner not an observer.

I was also told that I should have reversed into a parking space and not driven in forwards before I met him, and that reverse bay park at the end of the test should have been a simple one and not one which required skill ie 90 degrees to the bay like my pupils have to do on their learner test.

I hate to pick but your pupils do not have to do the bay park at 90 degrees on their L test.

Hi Martin

In Chorley and Southport test centres my pupils have no option but to bay park at 90 degrees, I realise that not the case at all test centres  wink


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#18 Friday 26th July 2013 21:38:15

reddragonbus
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: Sunday 5th February 2006
Posts: 1,666

Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

I had someone up for an extended driving test a few years ago who had been banned for being on the wrong side of the road passing a junction.

Think he must have been one of those advanced driving types as he was overtaking at 80+mph on a single carriageway passing a junction on the right. Just a shame he overtook an off duty police sergeant from the village he lived in.

I don't rate the IAM at all, I call them the Institute of Advanced Muppetry.  tongue


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#19 Friday 26th July 2013 21:43:04

brod
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Registered: Wednesday 20th March 2013
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Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

Personally I am no great lover of IAM sad
however on this occasion and from what has been said I have to agree with the decision. People appear to be missing an important factor here! the junction to the right is a give way, and as we all know, anyone emerging at a  give way HAS to give way to traffic from the right and the LEFT. At the time you approached the parked car there was obviously no car emerging from the junction to the right and then you should  have realised that. Fortunately I know the road in question and have driven it several times, I to would have moved out earlier as the IAM examiner advised. IF, a car approached the give way to the right and DID emerge thenproviding your speed suited the conditions you would have had plenty time to move back in. Sorry for going against the trend here but the examiner WAS correct, on this occasion. neutral

Last edited by brod (Friday 26th July 2013 21:45:30)

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#20 Friday 26th July 2013 21:49:54

ralge
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From: Sheffield
Registered: Wednesday 10th January 2007
Posts: 320

Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

RobC wrote:

I realise this is moving out for a parked car but does anyone know the IAMs stance on offsiding the centre line?

If there is one, it is surely to deal with hazards (actual and potential) in priority and never to sacrifice safety for vision.
The side-road to the offside cannot be ignored so position has to be away from the immediate danger posed by that and position for vision into the side-road for any approaching hazard.


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#21 Friday 26th July 2013 21:55:22

ralge
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From: Sheffield
Registered: Wednesday 10th January 2007
Posts: 320

Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

RobC wrote:
martin Williams wrote:
RobC wrote:

I agree with everyones comments but this was an IAM examiner not an observer.

I was also told that I should have reversed into a parking space and not driven in forwards before I met him, and that reverse bay park at the end of the test should have been a simple one and not one which required skill ie 90 degrees to the bay like my pupils have to do on their learner test.

I hate to pick but your pupils do not have to do the bay park at 90 degrees on their L test.

Hi Martin

In Chorley and Southport test centres my pupils have no option but to bay park at 90 degrees, I realise that not the case at all test centres  wink

I'm struggling with "having to bay park at 90 degrees".  Can we have a google street/car park view?
Surely if you have room for a 90 degrees, there's room for my preferred method:
- pull up perpendicular and fairly close to the lines/cars in the bays.
- turn away from bays opening up the angle of vision behind you into the bay and then reverse into it??


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#22 Friday 26th July 2013 21:56:15

RobC
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From: Nr Ormskirk Lancs
Registered: Wednesday 28th January 2009
Posts: 765
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Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

Driver99 wrote:
RobC wrote:

I agree with everyones comments but this was an IAM examiner not an observer.

I was also told that I should have reversed into a parking space and not driven in forwards before I met him, and that reverse bay park at the end of the test should have been a simple one and not one which required skill ie 90 degrees to the bay like my pupils have to do on their learner test.

Did you have any training prior to the test?
It's a bit like a PST, if you know what they are looking for, it helps.
If they see you do a reverse at the start of a test, they like that.  If it's done well they can spend more time on driving forwards, which is more interesting.
The idea for a bay park is to make life easy for yourself, why try a 90 degree if you don't have to? You don't have to do 90 on a DSA test.

I did have some training but it appears that there is the official IAM line, for example on offsiding...and then theres the examiners opinion which is why  its difficult to know what they are looking for.
I know that you may be observed manoeuvring when you are arriving for test, but I was already there it was just that the examiner didn't like the fact Id gone into a bay forwards. I do a lot of fleet assessments and I could guarantee I wouldn't get any repeat work if I told my customers they should have reversed into their spaces before their assesments yikes .

I automatically did a bay park at 90 degrees is because that is what I do every day with my learners due to the test centre layout. I agree another way could have been easier. In the same way a former police trained driver may well continue to drive in a certain way because that's what hes been trained to do and has done for 25 years without him considering whether its the best and safest way for everyday driving.

Last edited by RobC (Friday 26th July 2013 22:01:23)


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#23 Friday 26th July 2013 22:06:47

RobC
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From: Nr Ormskirk Lancs
Registered: Wednesday 28th January 2009
Posts: 765
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Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

ralge wrote:

I'm struggling with "having to bay park at 90 degrees".  Can we have a google street/car park view?
Surely if you have room for a 90 degrees, there's room for my preferred method:
- pull up perpendicular and fairly close to the lines/cars in the bays.
- turn away from bays opening up the angle of vision behind you into the bay and then reverse into it??


Southport DSA test centre

Last edited by RobC (Friday 26th July 2013 22:08:21)


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#24 Friday 26th July 2013 22:08:15

Triplea35
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Registered: Friday 28th September 2012
Posts: 528

Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

RobC wrote:

Hi Martin

In Chorley and Southport test centres my pupils have no option but to bay park at 90 degrees, I realise that not the case at all test centres  wink

I cannot envisage a situation/location where an easier option of bay parking than the 90 degree method is not possible?

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#25 Friday 26th July 2013 22:16:36

la.monikita
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From: SE LONDON / KENT
Registered: Saturday 12th March 2005
Posts: 3,064

Re: IAM Offsiding the centre line

kaf wrote:

Your observer is an idiot, getting across the centre line before the junction is madness , if a car emerges from the junction on the right, with the driver looking only to his right, as many do, you are in imminent danger. Your escape time is very restricted and will,necessitate a rapid steer left, which is not something you should put tourself in a position of having to do.

That junction, with its restricted view in is by far a bigger hazard, if you cross the line, than the parked car is if you stay left of it.

I would speak to the area senior observer and challenge the comments made.

+1


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