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#1 Saturday 20th July 2013 17:26:25

Shadgrind
Member
From: Hungerford
Registered: Saturday 20th July 2013
Posts: 24
Website

Cannot Afford to Work

Hi, I have just started on a pink licence, queue groan! I am working for a company that provides a car (55 plate, no air con 30 degree heat here!). They take half of all lesson fees too! Post edited for legal reasons.

Last edited by Shadgrind (Thursday 1st August 2013 11:43:29)


Going to the brink of death & back in a nine car pile-up, is much like making love to a beautiful woman. Brace yourself, hold tight & pray you make contact with her twin airbags as soon as possible big_smile

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Saturday 20th July 2013 17:26:25

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Re: Cannot Afford to Work



#2 Saturday 20th July 2013 18:15:22

reddragonbus
Verified Member
From: Edinburgh
Registered: Sunday 5th February 2006
Posts: 1,666

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

Firstly the Pink licence is not intended for making money. It's purpose is purely to gain valuable practice in order to pass the part 3 test.

There are many instructors who have been established in the industry for many years who are unable to make a living as a driving instructor any more and have been forced to take on other work or quit altogether.

Sadly the whole industry is in some sort of self destruct and has been for the past 2 years.


LGV PCV Instructor DVSA ADI Fleet

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#3 Saturday 20th July 2013 18:45:22

Lewinpeter1
Verified Member
From: Morpeth,Northumberland
Registered: Saturday 17th January 2009
Posts: 803
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Re: Cannot Afford to Work

Hi
1st of all i sympathise.
Secondly;how the hell do you learn for an adi badge doing unsupervised work at slave labour rates and hours?
Well;you have a contract which,presumably,states what they are supposed to provide.
If they have not kept to the terms of the contract,tell them to take a hike.
However,there is a difference between what is promised verbally[sales pitch]and a contract.
Read your contract.
Peter


Dont press that,oh @@##!

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#4 Saturday 20th July 2013 19:04:10

Shadgrind
Member
From: Hungerford
Registered: Saturday 20th July 2013
Posts: 24
Website

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

Lewinpeter1 wrote:

Hi
1st of all i sympathise.
Secondly;how the hell do you learn for an adi badge doing unsupervised work at slave labour rates and hours?
Well;you have a contract which,presumably,states what they are supposed to provide.
If they have not kept to the terms of the contract,tell them to take a hike.
However,there is a difference between what is promised verbally[sales pitch]and a contract.
Read your contract.
Peter

How much supervision should I get.... Ok I'll google it! ?


Going to the brink of death & back in a nine car pile-up, is much like making love to a beautiful woman. Brace yourself, hold tight & pray you make contact with her twin airbags as soon as possible big_smile

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#5 Saturday 20th July 2013 19:11:59

Shadgrind
Member
From: Hungerford
Registered: Saturday 20th July 2013
Posts: 24
Website

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

Well, just googled it. 20 percent of my lessons! However I do get an hour a week in 'class' where we go over the PST's. does that count?


Going to the brink of death & back in a nine car pile-up, is much like making love to a beautiful woman. Brace yourself, hold tight & pray you make contact with her twin airbags as soon as possible big_smile

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#6 Saturday 20th July 2013 19:17:49

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: Monday 13th December 2004
Posts: 4,739

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

Don't google it, read the contract you have with your franchise


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#7 Saturday 20th July 2013 19:19:48

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: Sunday 29th February 2004
Posts: 7,619

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

You will find it on "YOUR ROAD TO BECOMING AN APPROVED DRIVING INSTRUCTOR (ADI 14)".

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#8 Saturday 20th July 2013 19:26:35

Shadgrind
Member
From: Hungerford
Registered: Saturday 20th July 2013
Posts: 24
Website

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

Ah we'll regardless of the contract, I am actually, out of cash, so what can they do? Blood and stone spring to mind!


Going to the brink of death & back in a nine car pile-up, is much like making love to a beautiful woman. Brace yourself, hold tight & pray you make contact with her twin airbags as soon as possible big_smile

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#9 Saturday 20th July 2013 19:31:35

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: Friday 26th June 2009
Posts: 1,144

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

You say you are doing 64 hrs a week and that your 55 reg Corsa is cheap at 2 quid a lesson. That works out at 128 quid a week or around 565 a month.

Get rid and lease a second hand dual control car for around 62 a week 265 a month. That's 300 saved.

Lots of driving schools have special offers like 5 for 50. I assume after that they go to the full price of around 20 an hr? So say after the first few weeks have passed you should be doing 50 hrs at around 20 and 14hrs at 10 the total comes to 1140 a week.

Are you saying out of that they take 570 and 128 for the car? If so they must be the most expensive franchise driving school ever.

You pay for fuel say 200 leaving you 250  a week  if the car cost comes out as well for 64hrs of lessons?     

After saying that I totally agree with Blindspot pink licences are to help with your training not to make a living.

Last edited by martin Williams (Saturday 20th July 2013 19:45:35)

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#10 Saturday 20th July 2013 19:34:04

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: Thursday 4th March 2004
Posts: 5,680

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

I still have my estimated earnings chart, given to me upon induction, stating earnings of some 500+ a week.

Earnings are always quoted as gross income, because everyone has different circumstances.  From what you say you are earning more than 500 gross, so the franchisor is not telling lies.

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#11 Saturday 20th July 2013 19:50:03

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: Monday 13th December 2004
Posts: 4,739

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

I still have my estimated earnings chart, given to me upon induction, stating earnings of some 500+ a week.

The key word there is estimated


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#12 Saturday 20th July 2013 19:54:43

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: Friday 26th June 2009
Posts: 1,144

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

I guess this is their way of getting their money back for training you for 'FREE'

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#13 Saturday 20th July 2013 20:27:46

Shadgrind
Member
From: Hungerford
Registered: Saturday 20th July 2013
Posts: 24
Website

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

Roadmaster wrote:

I still have my estimated earnings chart, given to me upon induction, stating earnings of some 500+ a week.

Earnings are always quoted as gross income, because everyone has different circumstances.  From what you say you are earning more than 500 gross, so the franchisor is not telling lies.

Not even grossing half that! Just been paid 228 for a weeks work that is gross, before fuel tax etc. remember they take half my earnings, I net less than 110 a week! Regardless of everything, I have a very frugal lifestyle I don't drink or go out more than a couple of time a month to cinema etc. my rent is only 450 a month I have phone contract @35 PCM  loan on a motorbike @125 PCM  insurance for bike 25 PCM council tax 110 (Sky package broadband &phone 50). Elec and gas 70 PCM. Plus credit card bill of around 1000 spent on hire cars used to train for part two, Before food, of course, estimated net income after fuel, 540. Doesn't add up, pure and simple. Feel like just not turning up, but don't want to let my pupils down, and don't want to give them grounds to sue me for any reason. I have been mislead and exploited and am out of money. Tired and frustrated at being taken for a mug.

Before training I had a 500 quid overdraft and zero on credit card. Now overdraft is 1500 and CC is at 1000, going up every week.

Last edited by Shadgrind (Saturday 20th July 2013 20:36:17)


Going to the brink of death & back in a nine car pile-up, is much like making love to a beautiful woman. Brace yourself, hold tight & pray you make contact with her twin airbags as soon as possible big_smile

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#14 Saturday 20th July 2013 20:41:04

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: Thursday 4th March 2004
Posts: 5,680

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

Shadgrind wrote:
Roadmaster wrote:

I still have my estimated earnings chart, given to me upon induction, stating earnings of some 500+ a week.

Earnings are always quoted as gross income, because everyone has different circumstances.  From what you say you are earning more than 500 gross, so the franchisor is not telling lies.

Not even grossing half that! Just been paid 228 for a weeks work that is gross, before fuel tax etc. remember they tak half my earnings, I net less than 110 a week! Regardless of everything, I have avert frugal lifestyle I don't drink or go out more than a couple of time a month to cinema etc. my rent is only 450 a month I have phone contract @35 PCM  loan on a motorbike @125 PCM  insurance for bike 25 PCM council tax 110 (Sky package broadband &phone 50). Elec and gas 70 PCM. Before food, of course, estimated net income after fuel

You haven't been 'paid' anything because you are not an employee, but a franchisee.      If you were an employee the driving school would be deducting tax and national insurance.         

You are grossing over 500.  From your gross earnings the franchisor is taking their cut, albeit half of the income, as per the contract you agreed to.  In other words the franchise fees are an expense which is deducted from your gross earnings. 

Or perhaps you aren't really sure what terms you agreed to and the driving school is taking advantage of that.
Do you have an actual contract in writing?

Last edited by Roadmaster (Saturday 20th July 2013 20:58:03)

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#15 Saturday 20th July 2013 21:07:43

Shadgrind
Member
From: Hungerford
Registered: Saturday 20th July 2013
Posts: 24
Website

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

Roadmaster wrote:
Shadgrind wrote:
Roadmaster wrote:

Earnings are always quoted as gross income, because everyone has different circumstances.  From what you say you are earning more than 500 gross, so the franchisor is not telling lies.

Not even grossing half that! Just been paid 228 for a weeks work that is gross, before fuel tax etc. remember they tak half my earnings, I net less than 110 a week! Regardless of everything, I have avert frugal lifestyle I don't drink or go out more than a couple of time a month to cinema etc. my rent is only 450 a month I have phone contract @35 PCM  loan on a motorbike @125 PCM  insurance for bike 25 PCM council tax 110 (Sky package broadband &phone 50). Elec and gas 70 PCM. Before food, of course, estimated net income after fuel

You haven't been 'paid' anything because you are not an employee, but a franchisee.      If you were an employee the driving school would be deducting tax and national insurance.         

You are grossing over 500.  From your gross earnings the franchisor is taking their cut, albeit half of the income, as per the contract you agreed to.  In other words the franchise fees are an expense which is deducted from your gross earnings. 

Or perhaps you aren't really sure what terms you agreed to and the driving school is taking advantage of that.
Do you have an actual contract in writing?

Got a contract, not a franchise,  it states I am an 'agent'  not an employee though, in essence I collect their cash for them and they give me a cut. As I said regardless of contract I will be unable to eat never mind put fuel in the car! So I have no choice but to stop, and very very soon! Oh and the 500 gross was supposed to be my cut to the total gross takings. I have the chart in front of me.

Last edited by Shadgrind (Saturday 20th July 2013 21:09:11)


Going to the brink of death & back in a nine car pile-up, is much like making love to a beautiful woman. Brace yourself, hold tight & pray you make contact with her twin airbags as soon as possible big_smile

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#16 Saturday 20th July 2013 21:10:23

martin Williams
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Registered: Friday 26th June 2009
Posts: 1,144

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

Are they training you for free or have you paid them for that?

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#17 Saturday 20th July 2013 21:19:19

kaf
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From: Wiltshire
Registered: Sunday 5th August 2007
Posts: 3,330
Website

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

I think you,have made the classic mistake of not doing your research on this industry before jumping in.

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#18 Sunday 21st July 2013 07:19:57

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: Monday 24th October 2011
Posts: 861

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

Shadgrind wrote:
Roadmaster wrote:
Shadgrind wrote:

Not even grossing half that! Just been paid 228 for a weeks work that is gross, before fuel tax etc. remember they tak half my earnings, I net less than 110 a week! Regardless of everything, I have avert frugal lifestyle I don't drink or go out more than a couple of time a month to cinema etc. my rent is only 450 a month I have phone contract @35 PCM  loan on a motorbike @125 PCM  insurance for bike 25 PCM council tax 110 (Sky package broadband &phone 50). Elec and gas 70 PCM. Before food, of course, estimated net income after fuel

You haven't been 'paid' anything because you are not an employee, but a franchisee.      If you were an employee the driving school would be deducting tax and national insurance.         

You are grossing over 500.  From your gross earnings the franchisor is taking their cut, albeit half of the income, as per the contract you agreed to.  In other words the franchise fees are an expense which is deducted from your gross earnings. 

Or perhaps you aren't really sure what terms you agreed to and the driving school is taking advantage of that.
Do you have an actual contract in writing?

Got a contract, not a franchise,  it states I am an 'agent'  not an employee though, in essence I collect their cash for them and they give me a cut. As I said regardless of contract I will be unable to eat never mind put fuel in the car! So I have no choice but to stop, and very very soon! Oh and the 500 gross was supposed to be my cut to the total gross takings. I have the chart in front of me.

If that is correct, it's a strange arrangement.

According to the company's website, they are an agent and the contract is between the self-employed instructor and the pupil: that is the normal industry set-up.

If that is not the case and you are the school's agent, collecting the money on their behalf, then the contract is between the school and the pupil. Two issues then arise.

Firstly, you are effectively self-employed, with only one customer (the school). HMRC do not like that. They will regard you as an employee in disguise, and see the school as evading its duty to both collect PAYE and to pay employer's NI contributions.

Second, if this arrangement was repeated for a number of instructors, the school's turnover would almost certainly be above the VAT threshold.

If I have understood you correctly, my advice would be to walk away and to shop them to the taxman, who will come down on them like a ton of bricks.

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#19 Sunday 21st July 2013 08:24:54

Evan
Administrator
Registered: Sunday 27th December 2009
Posts: 2,059

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

I wouldn't moan too much you are not a qualified instructor and you say you have 65 hours of work, if and when you pass your part 3 and that is a lot of work to start out with.

The Pink licence is a means to gaining experience, and to be honest you could be making a lot of mistakes that are not being rectified due to lack of supervision. Don't go thinking that just because pupils pick things up and pass their test with you, that you are doing things the way they are supposed to be done. You may well be doing them correctly, but I have known a number of PDI's who have been busy and ended up failing their part 3 three times. Think seriously about that, you could end up with all the debt and no means of paying it back if you fail 3 times good luck.

Last edited by Evan (Sunday 21st July 2013 08:29:18)

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#20 Sunday 21st July 2013 10:27:46

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: Friday 26th June 2009
Posts: 1,144

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

You say you just want a way out is that correct?

Well as your agent/franchice fee is just based on the hours worked do no hours then you will have nothing to pay.

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#21 Friday 26th July 2013 14:14:26

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: Thursday 4th March 2004
Posts: 5,680

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

It's too late for you by the sound of it, but hopefully any other PDI reading this will learn that becoming an ADI is not at all what the adverts say.

NEVER EVER sign a contract without reading it and thoroughly  thinking through the implications of what it is going to cost.   If you are unsure, get some proper advice BEFORE signing up to anything.

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#22 Friday 26th July 2013 16:00:25

Lady-Hynarc
Verified Member
Registered: Monday 9th April 2012
Posts: 650

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

Hiya,

Do your local council offer any incentive schemes for new businesses?  Some do and they can consist of a grant or interest-free loan.  You will have to have a good business plan but you should have one of those anyway and you may need to consult one of their advisors regularly.  It might help you, not only with your immediate future but also with the contract issues that you face.

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#23 Friday 26th July 2013 16:37:10

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: Thursday 4th March 2004
Posts: 5,680

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

I'm not sure any council would consider giving financial help to a PDI.   You cannot run as a business until you qualify as an ADI.

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#24 Friday 26th July 2013 19:14:12

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: Sunday 5th August 2007
Posts: 3,330
Website

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

If you are self employed, you cannot be contracted to work any set hours, to a specific person. Another person having total control of how and when you work? if this is the case then HMRC would probably view you as employed.

I'm thinking this may well have the markings of an unfair contract and suggest you take legal advise as soon as possible.

Last edited by kaf (Friday 26th July 2013 19:15:21)

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#25 Friday 26th July 2013 19:25:09

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: Monday 24th October 2011
Posts: 861

Re: Cannot Afford to Work

Roadmaster wrote:

It's too late for you by the sound of it, but hopefully any other PDI reading this will learn that becoming an ADI is not at all what the adverts say.

NEVER EVER sign a contract without reading it and thoroughly  thinking through the implications of what it is going to cost.   If you are unsure, get some proper advice BEFORE signing up to anything.

I couldn't agree more. If you want to be an instructor, then you are almost certainly going to be self-employed, i.e running a business.

If you haven't any business experience, then training in business is just as important as instructor training IF NOT MORE SO.

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