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#1 Thursday 27th September 2012 09:58:36

Born Saintly
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From: South
Registered: Monday 11th April 2005
Posts: 48

Weight in trailers 2013

I've been told from 2013 a B&E trailer on test must weigh a minimum of 800kg
I can not find a link anywhere to give me the definitive answer.
If anyone one could help me out here, it would be appreciated.
I'm not talking about the new licence legislation it's the weight of trailer presented for test I'm on about

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Thursday 27th September 2012 09:58:36

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Re: Weight in trailers 2013



#2 Thursday 27th September 2012 12:49:05

(ROG)
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From: LEICESTER
Registered: Monday 23rd August 2010
Posts: 1,551

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

Not heard that rumour from any of the LGV/B+E schools I am in touch with

There has always been talk that the DSA will finally come around to the LGV vehicles being an actual minimum weight so therefore part loaded but that talk has been arounf for at least 7 years


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Leicester group of advanced motorists
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#3 Thursday 27th September 2012 15:25:42

Born Saintly
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From: South
Registered: Monday 11th April 2005
Posts: 48

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

Thanks RDG
I have been under the same impression as your self.
The reason I raised the question a guy that runs the military contract rang me yesterday to see if I could help them out and mentioned they are going to add weight to the trailers in the new year.
The military did go to the smaller test areas 3 months earlier than the DSA so there may be something in it.
If I can find out any more I will update the thread.
Rich

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#4 Thursday 27th September 2012 15:29:28

pegasus
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From: north west
Registered: Friday 25th February 2005
Posts: 3,319

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

Hi
Not a rumour, try looking at the DT1 chapter 3, section 02.

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/d … cedure.pdf

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#5 Thursday 27th September 2012 16:45:17

(ROG)
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From: LEICESTER
Registered: Monday 23rd August 2010
Posts: 1,551

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

pegasus wrote:

Hi
Not a rumour, try looking at the DT1 chapter 3, section 02.

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/d … cedure.pdf

So it does !!

Like many other things with the DSA I will believe it happens when I see it but ..... I will call DSA Nottm tomorrow and see what I can find out


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#6 Thursday 27th September 2012 20:42:00

reddragonbus
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: Sunday 5th February 2006
Posts: 1,664

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

No problem at all, nip down to a Channel port, leave your trailer open and it will fill up with illegal immigrants, shut the door and off to the test centre, job done. cool


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#7 Friday 28th September 2012 12:42:07

(ROG)
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From: LEICESTER
Registered: Monday 23rd August 2010
Posts: 1,551

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

Called DSA Nottm 0115 936 6666 and had a nice long chat about this .... PROPOSAL

Just like the LGV minimum weight issue which seems to have all but disapeared, there is a proposal for an actual minimum trailer weight for B+E but at the moment it is being 'blocked' in Parliament

If it did go through under the present rules then it would have to be an empty trailer with a minimum unladen weight of 800 and a plated MAM of at least 1000 becuase current rules state the trailer must be empty

Just like the LGV, ballast or what could or could not be deemed safe ballast, seems to be the stumbling block because it is realised that it would mean without allowing ballast, many trailers used for B+E would need to be replaced and that is unacceptable

Like everything else re DSA ..... wait and see .... but dont hold your breath waiting for a change


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#8 Friday 28th September 2012 17:32:10

pegasus
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From: north west
Registered: Friday 25th February 2005
Posts: 3,319

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

Hi
Cheers rog, it is not often that they actually put somethingg in the DT1 which hasn't been ratified.

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#9 Saturday 29th September 2012 10:50:55

reddragonbus
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: Sunday 5th February 2006
Posts: 1,664

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

The DSA seem intent on making life as easy for themselves as possible and as difficult as possible for everyone else.

They dropped the brake exercise and reduce the size of the reversing area so they can ditch the VOSA sites.

They increased the number of mirrors required, the size and weight of vehicles, number of gears, ABS, Tachographs, closed body trailers etc etc which costs the training providers money.

Dragging around an empty box van burns more fuel than towing a flat bed.

If they intend freighting the lorries should the buses not also be full of passengers for test? Driving a double decker with a standing load is nothing like driving an empty single decker!

If the DSA supplied the test vehicles they would not be so quick to change the rules.


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#10 Saturday 29th September 2012 11:20:36

(ROG)
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From: LEICESTER
Registered: Monday 23rd August 2010
Posts: 1,551

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

http://www.drivemebananas.co.uk/trailer.html
I think the intention of the DSA is to prevent using the type of set up you show in that link
I expect in the future there will be a size requirement as well as weight requirements - just like the LGV

The DSA increased the LGV vehicle requirements so it became a little more realistic but IMO they did not go far enough but I do recognise there has to be a balance between what can be done and the cost implications involved


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#11 Saturday 29th September 2012 12:40:29

reddragonbus
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: Sunday 5th February 2006
Posts: 1,664

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

Changing the rules won't stop me using that combination, I will simply plate the trailer as 800kg empty.


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#12 Saturday 29th September 2012 12:59:11

(ROG)
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From: LEICESTER
Registered: Monday 23rd August 2010
Posts: 1,551

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

reddragonbus wrote:

Changing the rules won't stop me using that combination, I will simply plate the trailer as 800kg empty.

Make the inside walls twice as thick and that will do it

Only if the size perameters change is it likely to become a problem


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#13 Tuesday 2nd October 2012 16:28:26

Born Saintly
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From: South
Registered: Monday 11th April 2005
Posts: 48

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

Thanks everyone

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#14 Thursday 7th March 2013 07:06:40

reddragonbus
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: Sunday 5th February 2006
Posts: 1,664

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

I spoke to the DSA yesterday, they are about to announce this officially.

From September 30th this year B+E trailers must carry at least 600KG of ballast in the form of sand bags. Or a full one tonne water IBC.

My trailer is 320KG empty so I am going to be dragging 920KG of dead weight around behind me. I can see my prices doubling to cover the fuel, brakes and clutches!

I pity the examiners who are going to take this lot out onto the public highway without first checking it can be stopped safely in an emergency!

On the plus side it might prevent private runners attending the test as they are unlikely to want to put 600KG of sand inside their caravan?


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#15 Friday 8th March 2013 10:52:15

(ROG)
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From: LEICESTER
Registered: Monday 23rd August 2010
Posts: 1,551

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

reddragonbus wrote:

I spoke to the DSA yesterday, they are about to announce this officially.

From September 30th this year B+E trailers must carry at least 600KG of ballast in the form of sand bags. Or a full one tonne water IBC.

My trailer is 320KG empty so I am going to be dragging 920KG of dead weight around behind me. I can see my prices doubling to cover the fuel, brakes and clutches!

I pity the examiners who are going to take this lot out onto the public highway without first checking it can be stopped safely in an emergency!

On the plus side it might prevent private runners attending the test as they are unlikely to want to put 600KG of sand inside their caravan?

From others I have spoken to it seems this is still not a done deal

I will believe this WHEN it happens

It is in with the same plan as the weight in LGVs which is so far just hot air


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Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#16 Friday 8th March 2013 18:16:03

VandADI
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From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: Sunday 29th February 2004
Posts: 7,608

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

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#17 Friday 8th March 2013 21:14:33

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: Monday 23rd August 2010
Posts: 1,551

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

VandADI wrote:

Cheers for that



Vehicle category B+E

Vehicle or trailer Trailer

Minimum real weight 800 kg - I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE THE REAL PROBLEM

Minimum load requirement 600 kg of sand or a 1,000 litre IBC


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#18 Saturday 9th March 2013 09:03:14

reddragonbus
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: Sunday 5th February 2006
Posts: 1,664

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

I think the major issue here is 600kg of dry sand, what happens if it gets wet? That is going to weigh more and you could find training trailers exceeding the trailer and towing vehicle weight limits.

And what happens to 1000L of water when it freezes inside a plastic IBC?

I don't understand why an artic which has a gross weight  of 44 tonnes is going to carry 5 tonne which is proportionally very small compared to B+E which is to operate at pretty much 100% load capacity.

Having looked into this I think I am going to have to get another trailer, not because the trailer cannot carry the weight but simply because I don't think permanently putting 600kg of sand in it is a safe option, basically I will have 80kg spare capacity and that could easily be exceeded if the sand were to get damp.

I cannot put an IBC in the trailer as it has a MAM of 1 tonne and empty it is 320kg so i would be 1400kg which is overloading the trailer and the car.

So the only option is to buy another trailer and another towing vehicle. Which wipes out any profit for the next 2 years.

The larger training providers win.


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#19 Saturday 9th March 2013 09:48:59

(ROG)
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From: LEICESTER
Registered: Monday 23rd August 2010
Posts: 1,551

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

reddragonbus wrote:

I cannot put an IBC in the trailer as it has a MAM of 1 tonne and empty it is 320kg

From my reading of the REAL weight it mean the trailer has to have an unladen weight of 800 kgs ??????


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Leicester group of advanced motorists
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#20 Saturday 9th March 2013 10:05:01

lucy
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Registered: Thursday 28th September 2006
Posts: 175
Website

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

For me the issue will be actually loading the trailer - it will take the weight and my tow vehicle can tow it.  Shame as I've got something that I can put in the trailer and will load itself  hmm but not sure the examiner or candidate will be thrilled dragging it around.

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#21 Saturday 9th March 2013 11:59:38

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: Thursday 5th March 2009
Posts: 754

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

I know there's probably a simple answer to this but how would the examiner know the weight of the trailer?

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#22 Saturday 9th March 2013 12:44:15

reddragonbus
Verified Member
From: Edinburgh
Registered: Sunday 5th February 2006
Posts: 1,664

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

(ROG) wrote:
reddragonbus wrote:

I cannot put an IBC in the trailer as it has a MAM of 1 tonne and empty it is 320kg

From my reading of the REAL weight it mean the trailer has to have an unladen weight of 800 kgs ??????

No the unladen weight is not mentioned, it simply requires that the trailer weighs at least 800kg with the ballast, they are assuming that a trailer is at least 200kg unladen and they stipulate 600kg sand, so all trailers presented will be at least 800kg.


VOSA have weigh bridges and drive on scales so it would not be difficult to check the weight at a VOSA site. Not so easy at at private site.


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#23 Saturday 9th March 2013 14:10:06

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: Monday 23rd August 2010
Posts: 1,551

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

reddragonbus wrote:

I think the major issue here is 600kg of dry sand, what happens if it gets wet? That is going to weigh more and you could find training trailers exceeding the trailer and towing vehicle weight limits.

And what happens to 1000L of water when it freezes inside a plastic IBC?

I don't understand why an artic which has a gross weight  of 44 tonnes is going to carry 5 tonne which is proportionally very small compared to B+E which is to operate at pretty much 100% load capacity.

Having looked into this I think I am going to have to get another trailer, not because the trailer cannot carry the weight but simply because I don't think permanently putting 600kg of sand in it is a safe option, basically I will have 80kg spare capacity and that could easily be exceeded if the sand were to get damp.

I cannot put an IBC in the trailer as it has a MAM of 1 tonne and empty it is 320kg so i would be 1400kg which is overloading the trailer and the car.

So the only option is to buy another trailer and another towing vehicle. Which wipes out any profit for the next 2 years.

The larger training providers win.

How often does the inside of your trailer get wet?


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Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#24 Saturday 9th March 2013 19:28:42

reddragonbus
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: Sunday 5th February 2006
Posts: 1,664

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

lol I live up a scottish mountain. It is cold and damp, everything is wet.


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#25 Sunday 10th March 2013 15:42:11

Born Saintly
Verified Member
From: South
Registered: Monday 11th April 2005
Posts: 48

Re: Weight in trailers 2013

ROG wrote:

From my reading of the REAL weight it mean the trailer has to have an unladen weight of 800 kgs ??????

I read it the same 800kg trailer + 600kg of sand, min 1400kg total. Luckily my car lease is up in July

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